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| Shannon and I used the same Canva template today, HAHA |
Today, I'm going to be discussing a topic that has been on my mind for quite some time now. And since it is somewhat controversial, or at least I think it is (maybe it is not?), it will be featured as a Fine Line post!
The Fine Line post is a feature I share with Holly @ The Fox's Hideaway, Shannon @ It Starts at Midnight, and Amber @ YA Indulgences. It touches upon topics that are either controversial or hard to talk about. For that reason, I will try to remain as neutral as possible. These posts are not aimed to cause offense or target anyone. And more importantly, the reason for these posts is to see what YOUR thoughts are on the topic at hand. Because I am interested in discussion.
Also, please don't be afraid to comment or discuss your thoughts. There's no right or wrong answer to anything I've discussed, and of course you do not have to agree with me on anything. The only thing I do ask is that you don't mention any names or the such. And if you do have a problem with anything I've said, feel free to DM me. Though just remember that I am allowed to state my own thoughts.
And with that, here goes nothing.
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Very recently, I finished what I thought was a fantastic and hilarious young adult contemporary. I really enjoyed reading it, and it even became a new 2016 favorite. However, it was brought to my attention that there were a couple of problematic issues with it, such as the negative portrayal of a fat character. There was a scene where she ran over to another character and knocked him unconscious, and then another where she sat on said character to stop him from moving.
So here's the thing. I still really loved this book, even with acknowledging the issues in it. So does this make me a hateful person, or an insensitive one?
Or how about if no one pointed it out to me at all? Would you view me as less of a person if I didn't even notice such issues, and you did?
I think there a lot of things we should talk about in regards to this, and I'll list my two views on the situation.
The first, is that unhealthy messages are not the best, and I'm sure most can agree with me on this. From completely inaccurate representations of POC and mental illness, to abusive relationships being romanticized along with mental illness, to negative views of body image, etc., the list is long. We can argue that whenever one of these issues occurs in a book, it sends out the message to teenagers and adults alike that all of these are okay. And in this society, that's not something we want to express.
Plus, if we do not discuss how problematic these books are, more of them will be published.
But, on the flip side, what if you really liked a book that had a lot of these issues, take for example, Fifty Shades of Grey. I think everyone can agree that it wasn't the greatest representation of a relationship, right? From what I've heard, at least. Yet, so many people loved the series.
The same can be said for the Twilight series. Many have said that it features an emotionally abusive relationship (I actually would not really know because I read the first book maybe 7 years ago? So I forget)*, yet again, there are tons of fans.
But there are so many readers out there, in the book blogging community from what I have seen, that got into YA because of Twilight! So technically, it was a good thing. When I read it 6 or 7 years ago, I remember that I didn't mind the book, and in fact I think I quite enjoyed it. Is it because I was unaware of what I was reading? For example, I know both Mosquitoland and The Love That Split The World were talked about being offensive to Native Americans. Yet I loved both books. Maybe it is hard to see things as problematic when you don't fall into that category.
In conclusion, I personally do not think I would force someone to hate a book because of its problematic issues. However, I would try to bring the issues to their attention (but only in real life to my friends, or my very close online friends). I'm not exactly sure I have the guts (or I guess the time?) to engage with someone online. Tweeting it though, or mentioning it in a review, would be something I would do.
And as to liking a book that has these issues, I would also say that is fine. It's your feelings, your thoughts, your opinions, and no one should be mad at you for it.
Wow, I cannot believe I got all of that out. Anyways...
What are your opinions on this? Do you have any books that you love but have problematic issues?
Logging you in...
darkeststorm 55p · 484 weeks ago
chinesesatellite 6p · 484 weeks ago
thefictionalreader 40p · 484 weeks ago
So it is possible to love a book that has problematic issues, I think. As long as the person doesn't agree with them? Like you said, you didn't notice the bad message. But you probably wouldn't agree with them, right? I'm not sure how to explain this well...
Anyway, I really enjoyed this discussion post and it definitely gave me a lot to think about!
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Nick · 484 weeks ago
I think it becomes a little trickier with YA when you have teens or kids reading the books. You're not really sure how they will react to the problematic issues and no lie, as a teenager, I assimilated a lot of what I learned from books into real life. Then, it has the potential to become quite dangerous, in my opinion. I'm not really sure what can be done in those cases though.
Anyways, great post, Val!
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Elizabeth · 484 weeks ago
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Sunny Smith 36p · 484 weeks ago
I think we also tend to forget that books are allowed to feature somewhat controversial or offensive viewpoints, because this gives the reader a chance to engage with the text and think about the issue. It's also important to separate the narrator/characters from the author. Just because the main character is racist or chauvinistic or whatever, doesn't mean that the author shares those feelings. Not all characters, in fact, I would say most characters, aren't supposed to be moral examples to the reader.
Those are a few of my jumbled thoughts. I love to see bloggers tackling these ethical issues surrounding books! Good job!
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bookmarklit 34p · 484 weeks ago
caitdrews 124p · 484 weeks ago
What I definitely don't like is when someone tries to convince me not to like a book. AGh. Not cool.
Larissa · 484 weeks ago
Firstly, I agree(: People should be able to enjoy whatever they wish without feeling ashamed for it. I for sure wouldn't try to change their view of the book, at most just mention the issues if it really bothers me. I totally understand that sometimes people don't realize certain situations/characters/etc can be viewed in a negative way. Sometimes it can go right over somebody's head, me included. I just think it's good to bring the issues to light. Like with Mosquitoland ahhhh, I absolutely adored (and still do) that novel. I wasn't even aware the depiction of First Nation culture was offensive till somebody brought it up.
Honestly if a book contains elements I don't agree with doesn't mean I'll hate it entirely (I'll usually just mention it in my review), at most it'll dampen my enjoyment of the story. The only time I ever really see myself hating a book because of it being problematic is if the ENTIRE story is based on a problematic factor, never is any alternative perspective shown and if it's never redeemed in any way. See Fifty Shades as this example, it showcases only an unhealthy relationship (no positive ones) and never does it address the relationship as a negative.
That is my personal view though and I get that some people love Fifty Shades. I won't make them feel shame for it. Honestly I did make a discussion post on 50 shades awhile back and the problems I had with it and why I couldn't enjoy it. That is the most I do. I'm not about to hate on the people who liked the book. Though I do have to watch myself LOL, sometimes I do get carried away when it comes to my feminist views and when people don't agree with me I'm LIKE COME ON.
Lovely discussion girl <3 3
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delicateeternity 69p · 484 weeks ago
I think it is okay to love a problematic book. Because you might have loved it before you realised it was problematic, which I think is the case most of the time when it comes to Twilight. Or you never realised it was problematic until someone ELSE told you.
Loving a book is a personal choice, and unless the book is really disgusting (not just problematic in some aspects but overall just an offensive piece of trash), then we are all allowed to love what we love without the fear of being judged for it. But on the other hand, if someone loves something that is problematic, and they know it, I don't think they should be blind to that fact and just deny any problematic aspects it may have. No book is perfect.
There was a book I really enjoyed reading last year, and then a friend of mine read it and mentioned something that the main character had said, which was derogatory. I didn't have any memory of it all. So I still like the book, but I know that that comment is in there now, and I would mention it if I were to ever speak about it.
Anyway, I don't know if this is making much sense, but it's a difficult topic, so I guess that's okay? XD
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aentee 54p · 484 weeks ago
I have loved so many books and tv shows that have problematic elements - and I always feel guilty for doing so once I realise what those elements are. E.g. Memoirs of a Geisha was one of my favourites, and I still admit to liking it on reread - even though it has sexist overtones and totally misrepresents a culture. I feel like a bad person for enjoying it BUT at the end of the day, a book is subjective - and I still have no hesitation to recommend it with notes about the accuracy.
Similarly to Twilight - I was not its biggest fan in high school, but I also hesitate to rag on the problematic aspects to the people who did enjoy it. For one, just because they liked it does not mean they're anti feminist who wants to sit at home and moon after some imaginary guy all day - and for two, I know that like me - others can also enjoy things while liking the problematic elements.
So I think it's great and necessary to point out the flaws in a book - especially when it comes to hurtful representation. But to insist that everyone must hate it and forget it ever existed? That's just as problematic.
Shay@TheStoryGoes · 484 weeks ago
Lovely discussion Val! =)
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Alexa @ Off the Page 44p · 484 weeks ago
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shannonmiz 83p · 484 weeks ago
But I think you don't have that type of book in mind, so I am going to just go with some tamer examples. I know we had talked about ACOTAR, and frankly, I didn't see the issue. Same with All the Bright Places. In fact, I think it did the opposite of what people are up in arms about. Similarly, I had heard so many "problematic" things with Thanks for the Trouble... and it was freaking brilliant, and I wholly disagree that it's problematic.
I think that's the thing- what is problematic for ONE person is simply NOT a problem for another. I don't know if you remember the insane hatred I had for Has to be Love? That book made me so angry, and problematic was just the tip of the iceberg for me. BUT plenty of people saw no issue with it. So I mean, those grey areas? You can't condemn someone for those. But if you see someone reading "Best Ways to Assault Puppies and Little Old Ladies", you can go right ahead and hate and judge.
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bmaraia 32p · 484 weeks ago
peach · 484 weeks ago
Even though Anna from "Anna and The French Kiss" is said to be a horrid depiction of France (and Anna, who spends a full year in Paris yet still can't speak a lick of French smh), I still love it. It's like a guilty-pleasure read. My sister is a big fan of Fifty Shades. Literally, nothing compares. She wanted me to see the movie with her, but oh god no. I think Fifty Shades is definitely spreading a terrible message. Girls aspiring to be like Ana, etc.
Terrific post, Val! <3
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corrallingbooks 62p · 483 weeks ago
I do love books that are problematic. I don't encourage others to hate books because they are problematic - instead I try to inform others of the problems that exist within the books, so that they can make an informed judgement, and know that the depiction in the book is not necessarily representative of life.
I think the best example of this might be City of Bones? We all know about the incest in there (even though it eventually turns out not to be incest). I warned others that incest is in the book, and that could be potentially problematic for them, but I also tell them that I loved the book regardless.
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dvasso 64p · 483 weeks ago
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Jordin · 483 weeks ago
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bookswithari 13p · 482 weeks ago
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jeannius88 122p · 482 weeks ago
So that turned out a bit more long winded than I wanted :P
rashikabahl 60p · 482 weeks ago
SO BASICALLY, lets love more books than we hate and just remember to respect everyone's opinions. YAY.
Absolutely love this post <3
Lexie · 482 weeks ago
Here's the thing: while the PROBLEMS are ubiquitous, I feel like in a lot of these cases, they are also SUBJECTIVE. A book that has a character break up a marriage and get their happily ever after is, obviously, inherently problematic. Anyone can recognize that. But there's also this intrinsic, subjective "gradient" of its problematic-ness that's going to be specific to your experience. If you're asexual, uninterested in relationships, and focused on another, overarching plotline, you may not even think about that aspect long enough to notice it. If you're emerging from a broken marriage where you were the left party, however - you'll HATE that book with a passion.
Does your internal scale diminish the existence of a problem? No, obviously not. I COMPLETELY agree when you say that we need to acknowledge these problems and encourage authors to approach them more sensitively in the future, so books don't keep glorifying the same things. I used to not even blink when a girl was called a 'slut' because I was so used to it and sadly desensitized to it. But then books took major issue with the slut-shaming and the double standard that this implies and now I SEE RED when I read it, let alone hear it irl. I didn't need to be TOLD "slut shaming is not okay". I was taught through example - via FICTION - and it COMPLETELY changed the way I think and perceive a lot of issues subsequently. Books have the power to change EVERYTHING by just addressing problems. Condoning them has the opposite effect.
BUT. But. Most of us aren't champions of every cause. Some we've never encountered, some we have no experience with, some we can't weigh in on. And these will appear in the books we read and we might overlook them. Is it okay for me to see a person love a book that was in some way problematic? No. But is it okay for that person to romanticize the problem and doggedly insist that the problem doesn't exist? No, probably not either.
Everything is a gradient for me. :) And I hate to be too quick to judge anyone. (And soooooo sorry for the essay.)
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Wendy · 480 weeks ago
My personal trigger, for lack of a better word, is books about foster kids and adopted kids, because of my children's life experience. The message that "all they need is love" pisses me off. Trauma has long term effects on the brain and behaviors. I didn't like One for the Murphys, because of how simple it made the whole thing. I'm also pretty picky about how depression and suicide are handled. The entire premise of 13 Reasons Why makes me really angry. That being said, I don't judge people who love either of those books. If it's a friend, I might explain to them what about the book strikes me as unhealthy or misguided, but I don't expect people to instinctively know things outside of their own experience. Added to that the fact that there is no universal experience--or at least, no universal RESPONSE to experience--so authors and readers could certainly disagree with my understanding of these issues even if they do have a similar background in them.
I agree with Lexie that I have more of a problem with people who deny the very issue others point out. I can love E&P while acknowledging that the Korean-American culture is handled poorly, relying on stereotypes and misinformation. Someone else can love 13 Reasons Why and understand that suicide is about mental illness, not "caused" by other people's behavior, or adore One for the Murphys while admitting that it paints an unrealistically rosy picture of recovery from family trauma. But to read Twilight or 50 Shades and say, "What? Those relationships are romantic and healthy in every way!" is not okay.
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